In Conversation

- Hello and welcome to the National Portrait Gallery. We're so happy that you could join us here today for this conversation between an artist and a subject from our Darling Portrait Prize. A couple of things before we get started. If you haven't already put your screen into speaker mode, you might like to toggle that in the top right hand corner of your screen. And also we would really appreciate it if you kept your microphones on mute throughout the discussion, but we'd really encourage you to enter any questions that you might have of our guests here today into the chat box, which is accessible on the bottom menu bar on your screen. If you're gonna do that, maybe give it a crack now and let us know perhaps where you're dialing in from today. We're always really keen to hear where our audiences are coming from for these virtual conversations. Particularly if you're joining us from our friends in Melbourne who are in lockdown at the moment or in lockdown anywhere around the world. And we really hope that you're staying safe and well. If you would like to find out more about our virtual conversations, we're holding a lot more of these virtual events now, our website address is portrait.gov.au You can sign up for our emails or you can follow us on all our socials @PortraitAu So we'll get cracking - at the end of the conversation. I'm gonna throw in any questions that you might have to our guests. So please do communicate with us. We'd love this to be an open dialogue between our audiences and our guests. I'm just gonna pass you over to Karen Vickery now, who's going to introduce our speakers to you.

- Thank you, Gill. Well, welcome everybody, my name is Karen. I'm the Director of Learning and Visitor Experience at the National Portrait Gallery. And it's a great pleasure to be here today with these two lovely gentlemen. But before I introduce you to them, I would like to have an acknowledgement. The National Portrait Gallery acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and recognizes their continuing connection to lands, waters and communities. We pay our respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander elders, the custodians and the elders both past and present. Now to introduce you, first of all, the artwork itself. "Post-show blues" by our artist, Liam Nunan painted in 2019. So I'll tell you a little bit about Liam, but I'm gonna have to ask Liam to hold my things.

- Yeah, yeah.

- So I can put my glasses on. Cause they're both very prolific and successful people. So this is Liam Nunan, welcome Liam.

- Thank you.

- And I had the privilege of working with both Liam and Guy many years ago, supposedly as one of their teachers, but you know, they taught themselves very effectively, very talented men, both of them. Liam describes himself as being relatively new to painting. However, in 2019, he won The Lester Prize for Portraiture for a painting of Johnny Hawkins. So for a newbie, he's doing incredibly well and to have a portrait in the Darling Portrait Prize is fantastic. So congratulations-

- Thank you.

- On both of those achievements, Liam. So Liam originally came from Brisbane and he moved to Sydney to study at the National Institute of Dramatic Art, better known as NIDA, in about 2010. He's a very successful actor. He's worked for Belvoir Theatre Company, the National Theater of Parramatta, the Malthouse Theater in Melbourne, Queensland Theater Company, among others. And also on screen, you may have encountered Liam's work, but in more recent times, he has been combining his professional acting career with a serious career as a portrait artist. And for our subject Guy, welcome Guy.

- Thank you.

- Guy is an actor as well and also trained at NIDA. And this is where these two gentlemen met. So they've known each other since 2010.

- Ten years?

- Yes, yeah, it's an anniversary. Guy is a Birripi Man from the great lakes region of the Northern Coast in New South Wales. He graduated from NIDA in 2010. So Liam was coming to study and Guy was in his final year at that time. Now Guy's a hugely successful actor. He was in a Cloudstreet at the Malthouse Theater, Harp in the South at Sydney Theater Company. He's worked for the Griffin Theater. He's worked for Belvoir Theater. He's also... Oh yes, Queensland Theater Company, Guy was one of the styles of Black Diggers, which was a fabulous production. And also you may know Guy from many appearances on screen, including Redfern Now, the ABC and Blackfella films series, which was fabulous. 2017 Guy won the Helpmann Award - congratulations Guy.

- Thank you.

- As best actor in a supporting role in a play for Jasper Jones, which he performed at MTC. And so without further ado, I'd like to introduce you to these two wonderful young artists... and they're flatmates.

- Yes.

- So they know each other extremely well. And I think what we'd like to hear first of all, is maybe what inspired you Liam, to paint your flatmate, Guy. I'm going to get out of the picture.

- Thank you, Karen. I mean I've painted all my housemates now just because they're there and I make them sit for me to draw and practice with and everything like that. First of all I started painting probably coming up to about two years ago now. In about 2017, I started going to a lot of life drawing classes and then a friend got me into painting. And from there it was kind of like who I can get to sit for me for extended amounts of time. And being a housemate, it's a lot easier just to be like, clearly, "can you just sit there and play PlayStation, PlayStation Nint-

- Nintendo. - Nintendo.

- Get it right. - I always get it wrong. So I'd known I'd wanted to paint Guy for a while. And I did try a few times before this very unsuccessfully. I just kept trying to overthink ideas and concepts, taking lots of photos and getting him to sit for me in different ways. And then I kinda just put that idea to rest for a little while. And then yes, I saw the Darling Prize was coming up and I was like, this is one, I'm gonna do Guy for this one. And yeah, on the day I think his bedroom has the best light in the house. So I was pretty much well, "We'll do it out there." And I went up to set up my drawing stuff and he was just playing Nintendo. - Yeah.

- So I was like, "Oh, this is actually a really nice color palette, kind of, the wall and the shirts and everything like that." And it kind of just started from there, took a few shots, did some sketches and that sort of thing. Quite often with, I think... when I try and put a concept into, I mean, of course there is a concept to the painting or an idea of Post-show blues, which I've called it. Usually the idea of what the painting is about, sort of comes out while I'm working on the painting. It's kind of just what sort of I find is filling my brain while I'm working on it, which kind of, I think just becomes imbued into the painting itself. So I knew I wanted to do something of Guy in a way that people aren't used to seeing him, he's a performer, so lots of people are seeing him in performance mode on stage. So I wanted to do something a bit more domestic and intimate and non-performative. And Guy and I have talked a lot in the past, I mean, a lot of actors do it's a very sort of up and down industry and you know, one minute you're working and the next three months you're not and, you know, driving delivery vans and stuff like that. So it's kind of it can be difficult at times to kind of balance your life in that regard. So the painting is sort of the kind of the aftermath of finishing a play and where it kind of leaves you after those really intense highs. I mean, I think after a play, you've talked about it in the past. - Yeah.

- How you kind of quite often for me, I mean, I know that I'll be awake until probably four in the morning and then I'll go to sleep and wake up mid day and get ready to do another show.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, it sounds like you-

- Cause it's such a unique thing. Like people would speak about Post-show blues in this way that it was quite common. And I was experiencing this thing after the show had run it season or whatever, and I'm just like, this doesn't feel like what everyone else is going through. Like, "What is it?" And it all kind of started around Jasper Jones. Cause I did a season at Belvoir and then did a season at MTC and then went back to Belvoir. And so I'd racked up more than a 100 shows or whatnot. And every show was this-

- Very intense, quite - Yeah.

- Emotionally I'd be like, "Whoa." like at the end of the night. And so the preparation for that would... the show would start at, what, 7:30, so at five o'clock I'd mentally be getting myself into this thing. And then going into the theater, warming up, doing this whole thing so from five o'clock until like 10 o'clock or something was this whole period of, you know, being in this character or warming up for it or whatever, I wasn't doing any thing to get out of it. And so it wasn't until I was doing, I don't know if I have we spoken about what happened at MTC?

- Do tell. No.

- Well, I was on stage and cause I was using, to get myself to that emotional state, when I was first doing it, I was available to just start crying or whatever. And then I would start resolving that and I'm like, "How did the tears come out?" And so I was using, you know, that opportunity to mourn my grandmother or like people that I knew. - Yep And then that was muddying with the character stuff. And then on stage I had this moment, like towards the end of the play where I had a suicidal thought and it took me to this place where it was like void of any emotion. And I was like, "I wanna die, I wanna kill myself." And then I caught myself doing that.

- Yeah.

- And then I was like, "Stop it, stop it." So I was having this like 20 minute conversation, well, it felt like that on stage, which probably lasted for a second. And I was like, "The audience can see it." And then I had to go off stage and then finish the play and I cried and then went off. And then after that it just kind of snowballed. And then, because I was doing it for so long and had that whole like five o'clock till like 10 o'clock of warming up after the play finished, like the week after that from five o'clock, til 10 o'clock where I was like living back, living my life. I was getting this anxiety where I would usually feel that of like, you know, getting ready for something. And then after that was Harp in the South, which was like a six-hour play, and then Cloudstreet, which was a six-hour play. So then my warmup would start two hours before at two o'clock show going to 10 o'clock or something like that. So it'd be a whole day of this thing where-

- Cause you've gotta sort of acclimatize the day so that your peak energy level lens at the point that you need it to.

- Yeah, exactly.

- And when you're doing that months and months in

- Yeah.

- it kind of really shakes you up.

- Yeah, and so when that season finished, like for at least two or three weeks, I'd be getting this like anxiety type thing of like, I should be doing a show, but I know I'm not supposed to be, I should be at the theater.

- That day after it closes is the weird day when it's like 7:30 and you're like, "I should be like, my body is used to like being- peaking right now."

- Yeah, I mean like, do you feel that kind of thing after the show?

- Yeah, usually for like a week or so or something. I mean I've never done a show quite as long in terms of months that you have, and back to back as well. So I feel like, you know, a couple of days of feeling sad, the show's over, but never anything quite that intense, I suppose, yeah.

- Yeah, so it was just really full on. And so then, because I'd always had game consoles and stuff and like touring life, it's so hard to pack this big computer in your bag and you'd have a laptop and stuff, but like a console or whatever. But as soon as the Nintendo Switch came out, it was like, you could put the console there and then you could put it in your pocket and you can put it everywhere. And I was like, "Give me one of those." So using that and then I could use that to busy my brain.

- And sort of slowly decompress. - Yeah.

- After show. - Yep.

- So that's how I dealt with it. - Yeah.

- Yeah, so that's kind of the mode in which I wanna sort of capture him in

- [Karen] So you're flatmates, old friends. - Yeah.

- So you were aware of some of the things that Guy so generously shared with us that he was going through that were really personal, really difficult.

- Yep.

- So was that partly what was informing your desire to paint him?

- Yes, yeah, I mean, like I said, I had already wanted to paint him before that, as I am sort of, I do count myself as relatively new to painting and I'm only sort of starting to get used to now what my kind of M.O. is in terms of what I like to paint and I've tried to move away sometimes and it never quite works. And I kind of get, keep getting drawn back to a more, I don't want to say somber, but more, a private moment. An unperformed moment. A lot of the other people that I paint as well are actors as well. So yeah, I wanna be able to share just a moment of something that's not usually shared and that touch more vulnerable. So I think that, I knew that was the sort of direction I wanna go to, but yes, as I was painting it, I sort of went into the idea of after the show, when that finishes, that kind of, what do you fill your time with and where does that energy go and that character and that kind of mourning, that character that was alive for you, you know, it was, it seemed, you know, it takes a huge part of you, yeah.

- [Karen] So Guy, were you aware of what Liam was trying to capture, that sense of you in this state? Or was it candid? What was the experience like?

- It was almost like, cause I was, no, it was, it was like, usually when Liam's sketches me or paint me or something, he's like, "Okay, so we'll just talk on some Netflix or something." or like we'd be at the pool or in the backyard. And he's like, "Do you mind if I sketch you?" So this for me, he was just like, yeah, just play your Nintendo and I'll-

- It's sort of like, yeah, it's easier to kind of, I'm always worried about asking to paint people and making them sit there for ages. So when I feel like it they're engaged in something, it's a lot easier for me as well to not feel like I have this huge time constraint because they're not comfortable or anything like that, but yeah, on the day that we did it, Guy was certainly not in that sort of state. He really was sitting there and playing Nintendo,

- Yeah, just playing, just going for it.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, but it's usually though, cause I kind of get what Liam's going for, not this pose type thing of just like, you like that candid type thing. So usually whenever you've painted or sketched it's me in this distracted moment or not distracted, but like a busy type thing. So I was kind of used to it.

- Yeah.

- [Karen] So Liam, you're a successful portrait artist. Tell us about how you, well you became an actor,

- Yeah.

- [Karen] How is it that you chose portraiture? What was it that made you want to do that?

- I mean, first of all, I did a lot of drawing and painting in high school and I knew loved art, I loved doing it. And for some reason I didn't go down that avenue. So I kind of already knew that I had that kind of impulse to draw, at least draw at that stage. And yeah, in about 2017, a friend took me to life drawing class and I just loved it. It was kind of- being an actor, you kind of sit around, waiting so long for other people to validate you by just getting an audition for something and just dying to be creative and not really feeling you're given the opportunity and you just sort of feel like you're waiting all the time for something. So it was kind of really good to find something that I felt like I was creatively in charge of. So that's where that kind of fled. I knew that I liked drawing people and faces and I'm not sure why, I'm sure I did try some still life. And I found that deathly boring. So I just kind of stuck with drawing and then a friend of mine... Oh, what came first? No, I sorta, I knew that I wanted to push onto painting somehow. I didn't really know how and I went and did like a one week course at NAS and I just got used to oils and I was quite surprised at what I could do in a short amount of time. And I was like, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna really give it a go. So I got a little studio space in Newtown and I was like, "I'm gonna rent it for a couple of months and just see if this works for me." And I found myself going there every spare moment that I had, and the first person I got to sit for me was my friend Johnny Hawkins. And that was the first portrait I'd really completed and put into the Lester Prize. And since then, I've just been really keen to keep, I'm not sure what it is, I don't really know what it is, but I love painting actors. I think for that reason that I can show something that other people aren't necessarily used to being able to see, that performance mode. Yeah, so I think that answers the question?

- Yeah.

- Yeah, it does, I saw an image of you on social media at your studio and you looked incredibly happy, which was wonderful, but you also were wearing gloves and you were talking about a reaction you were having to some of the materials you were using.

- Yeah, I've been told everyone that I've spoken to that I kind of was told to use gloves before I even started oil painting. There's specific colors that can have different reactions because of the different types of things the pigment comes from. I'm not a scientist or a chemist, so I don't know completely. But I do know early on I was getting a lot of paint on my skin and just getting little, little rashy things or the tiny things that I'm just like, maybe that's from the paint, I'm not sure. So I've just started to be a lot more careful, you know, where I get it. I still, I don't think I have an item of clothing that doesn't have a little bit of paint on it now, but-

- You're an artist aren't you?

- Yeah, I know, I just splashed my jeans just a little bit and just look really cool walking around Newtown.

- I belong here.

- Yeah, yeah, so I mean, I'll always wear gloves and often look in the mirror at the end of the day and I've got on my face, freak out.

- [Karen] Guy, you're really familiar with being photographed and having to do publicity and all those sorts of things, probably more than most of us. But is it different to see yourself portrayed in a portrait in this way and particularly one that's done by someone you're close to?

- Yeah, completely, just that, if there's a photo of something, someone can get an angle with you and play with the light or something and get some sort of aesthetic. But with this you can see how somebody sees you. Do you know what I mean? Like I've done a couple of like character building and stuff with-

- With photos?

- Yeah and especially with like, just recently I was playing someone with schizophrenia and like turning to portraits that people who have had schizophrenia that they've done in terms of like what they see and using that to get in their head. And I was like, "Oh, that's so interesting." It's the same thing with this. Like you can see how somebody sees you and just that light and you know what I mean?

- Like, well, the portrait is never, also, it's never just a portrait of the subject. I think it's always a portrait of the artist as well.

- Yeah - It's partly self portrait because it's always gonna be through the lens of whoever did the work. - Yep. So whether, I mean to, or not, there's always gonna be my kind of take on who you are or who the subject is.

- Yeah, and that's what I really like about it. And especially because my friend's done it, like you can see through them. I dunno, that sounds a bit like, "Doo, doo, doo, doo"

- But like, - You can see right up in there

- You know what I mean? And just the, like how you, I don't know. I really like... I really liked, I don't know, it sounds like such a wanky thing, but I really enjoy seeing myself 'cause another friend has done it and you get to see yourself through someone else's eyes. Through their brain.

- Yeah, I mean, it's gonna be so incredibly different.

- Yeah, completely. - Yeah

- I started watching, there's this TV show on it's on SBS, on demand called Portrait Artist Of The Year. Some of you have seen it and they'll have one sort of celebrity seat and a whole bunch of artists sit around and paint them. And it's just incredible to kind of, you don't even think that you have a style or anything until you kind of start, like other people will see it - Yeah when you can't, but it's really interesting sort of being able to see people's different takes on someone.

- There is something that I really like about your stuff, especially like you just sketches and whatnot, you get limbs and hands and fingers and toes and stuff. Like, I don't know that the attention to detail

- I love drawing them, and I hate painting them.

- Oh yeah, right. I don't know - They're hard. I think you really got my hands there.

- Actually these are the easiest hands-

- I'm always drawn to that there.

- Yeah. I don't know this painting took me like four days to do, which is like nothing compared to some of the other paintings I've spent months on some of them. And I was really quite happy with how quickly I did that. Cause I was like, "Oh God, this is going to be like four weeks on the hands alone." But yeah, some days you have good days, where it just happens really fast. And then weeks months of nothing sometimes, yeah.

- [Karen] So maybe Liam, tell me about the relationship between being an actor yourself and a portrait artist. How do you see those things connecting or different?

- I think that a lot of my work as a portrait artist or what I'm trying to become as a portrait artist started with acting like the investigation of character and nuance of character, that all started with acting and the study of theater and character and all that sort of thing. So I think that's just sort of intensified or I was already interested in people and behavior, and how much of a story you can tell with as little as you can. I think that's been helpful, you know, having that kind of background, yeah.

- [Gill] I've got a couple of questions coming through from our virtual audience. And also potentially relative.

- Oh. - Say their name, who is it?

- Oh, not a question from relative yet, but an observer. One of the first questions is what sort of games, and I'm assuming-

- I knew this question was gonna come. Right before this, I was like, "Someone who's gonna ask what games you play."

- [Gill] But there's a second question, second part of that question. Do you find yourself analyzing performances in the games you play or is it strictly just for an escape?

- Huh.

- Cause you did-

- Analyzing my own performance or like,

- What was the, do you remember what game game that was? You were very into unnamed goose game at the time.

- Yeah, the goose game where you, I think I was either playing that or Animal Crossing, but the goose game I was addicted to because you play this goose who just goes around town, like stealing pies and bells and like-

- I don't get the point at all but.

- And just honking at people. I was just like, that was distracting me. And it was great, but Animal Crossing as well, like you, you're this little person that goes into... on this Island and you make all these friends and you build up this Island and you sell apples and stuff like that. But other times I really liked like Zelda where I'm slashing people.

- Okay.

- Killing things.

- Yep.

- But do I analyze the performances in the games-

- Recently you were talking about what was that? Sort of zombie one or something just about a month ago and you were like obsessed with the storyline of it and the kind of graphics of it all. And the performance of it, I guess.

- The Last of Us, that's a PlayStation game.

- Right.

- Not Nintendo but they... the character acting in that is amazing. Cause they, they do the mo-cap type thing.

- Mo-cap, what is-

- Motion Capture. - Oh!

- For those who don't know.

- Have you done any of that? where they-

- No, I wish.

- I've got so many actor friends that get all that work.

- Yeah, I'm not symmetrical enough. But they, The Last of Us. Yeah, I analyze those performances and stuff. If it's a game like that, that's what I do.

- [Gill] I've got a question for Liam.

- Yeah.

- How do you know when a portrait is finished?

- Oh! I'll usually think the portrait is finished and then I'll come back the next- and then it begins a new phase where it's like, I will take a photo of that portrait and I will go home, and for about three days, I'll be obsessively looking at it and I'll get my little paint function out and circle bits. And going no, that's got to lift. That's going to go down. So to nip and tuck it kind of thing on my screen. And then I'll go in and make tiny little adjustments and do that again and that will last sometimes weeks. I didn't do that with this, I really, this didn't end up where I was expecting it to go, but I was really happy with how kind of halfway there, it was for me in terms of there's an unfinished quality to it or something compared to some of my other work where I just felt like, "Stop it, put the brush down." Cause sometimes I've definitely gone too far sometimes and it takes a long... and where you think you're making it better and then you're like, "Oh God, have I had done? And then you spend four weeks trying to get back to what it was, yeah.

- [Gill] That sort of leads into more of a comment that has come from Anthea Da Silver, who is the winner of the Darling Portrait Prize, who's joining us today. And she said, "Congratulations on the hands. Great to know when to step away and go, "wow, got them." And then just leave them alone."

- I do have to say, cause this is the first time I've seen the exhibition today. And when you see them on your computer screen, you have very different ideas about all of them and which ones you're really drawn to. And I just, I mean, hers was one of my favorites, but having seen it in the flesh, it's just extraordinary and such a worthy winner. I think she's amazing. You're amazing.

- I think so too.

- [Gill] We've got a question, "Guy, You're the subject of Liam's art here. Do you have an example of when Liam has been the subject of, or inspiration for your art?"

- No, I don't.

- Based an characters on or...?

- For my art, for my art, I don't. Can you say that question again?

- [Gill] Yeah, I can. You're the subject of Liam's art.

- Yeah.

- [Gill] Do you have an example of when Liam has been the subject of, or inspiration for your art?

- I don't think I do.

- You're a bad friend.

- I don't know when I'm gonna use you as my character drop-ins.

- Liam, Liam, Liam, Liam, boof. No, I don't think I do... There've been a couple of times where... sometimes I use friends- have decide what they do, what would they do? There's been a couple of times, yeah. Energy-wise, you've got a, you've got a certain energy on stage.

- Right.

- That I used to siphon off. And just go, "Oh," how do like, "What would Liam do" in terms of like that. You're really great on screen and using that, oh, there we go. Thinking about Liam too, in terms of like how quickly you can move on screen without making it too big.

- Right, okay, thank you.

- There we go.

- I hope my agent's watching.

- Yeah.

- He's great on screen. Give him a job.

- [Gill] Liam, do you think you'll paint actors that you don't know or those that you only have a personal connection with or context with?

- I think I will and I have, I've been, I got commissioned to do a painting of beautiful Annie Byron who was an actress who I've known of, but I did not know. She made it very easy because I kind of, we had such a great rapport straight away when I met her. I think it is easier to know the person. I think, but maybe not, I mean, I'd love to sort of stretch what I know I'm comfortable with doing and to be able to get sitters that I don't know. And, you know, I think that's just as interesting to be able to give my take on someone who I don't know, as well as someone like Guy, but yes, yes. I would love to one day, I'm sure, yeah.

- [Gill] And Guy has this painting made you look at yourself differently?

- The posture.

- My posture.

- Has it made me look at myself differently?

- Those conversations opened up a lot more once we were talking about... So kind of you sort of-

- Yeah, I guess that's what it would be. Just not feeling like having to be some sort, like keeping it in and dealing with whatever it is by yourself. Like, What am I... Not romanticizing this whole thing of like the person who deals with it by themselves and then getting through it by themselves. It's like, no, like use other people with like, speak about it. - Yeah.

- And that was a good speaking point 'cause I did come to you and say listen, I've got this idea where I think I wanna take it. And that kind of opened up a conversation going like, Well, what is it like for you?

- Yeah.

- Because I think that's kind of helps to be-

- Yeah.

- To be able to look back in that kind of way?

- Like, it's a good reminder just to talk about it because up until that point I guess I just kind of kept it to myself and kept it private. And only spoke to like, my partner or family or whatever. Or just someone who's caught me in a moment or, you know.

- Yep.

- But knowing that like it's so okay to talk about it.

- Yeah, it's yeah, it's funny how many people just recently with COVID and everything, the theater industry is just shut down, but how many people have likened it to how they're kind of what they're feeling at the moment. Just kind of like not able to create and you know that, yeah, the idea of "Post-show blues" is kind of amongst a lot of theater people and film people right now I think.

- Especially, you know, cause so many people, a big part of your work is the dream time. And that is the preparation up until like, if you got a season happening in August, you'll spend all that month before like thinking about choices and whatnot.

- It's great, even if it's not for months away just knowing- - Yes.

- there's something coming.

- Yeah, and when your show's been axed there's your "Post-Show blues," what am I gonna do there? Use that time to talk about. You know? - Yeah.

- I guess, yeah, that's a good reminder.

- [Gill] I was wondering any of the people, we have a few real life people.

- Wow, real life.

- [Gill] I'm sure all those lovely people watching from home are also real life, but we have a few people in the flesh here and I'm wondering if they might like, or have a question for, yeah.

- [Woman 1] I get to hold the mic?

- [Gill] You get to hold the Microphone.

- [Woman 1] What's next in both of your practices? Like what are you both working on at the moment?

- I am, well, acting-wise sort of nothing. I had a show canceled this year as everyone has, hopefully that's gonna be coming back next year, American Psycho, The Musical, which will be coming to Canberra. Yes, fingers crossed it'll, you know, things get better. Painting-wise, I'm currently doing a painting of my friend, an incredible person Wesley Enoch. And I think that actually might be my last portrait for a little while. Cause I've been wanting to be able to sort of try, not that I've had any experience in it yet, but to move into landscapes and abstract and I've got a real interest for that kind of painting. So I'm going to kind of, yeah, see where that takes me after this one. What have you got? What are you doing?

- Next week, August is the window. So everyone's like, "let's do it." I was filming a series just before COVID and that got paralyzed and now is the time to do it. So we're just about to go back in and do that. At the same time juggling rehearsals at Belvoir for My Brilliant Career, which we're gonna rehearse and keep it for when the theater opens, I guess. So busy, yeah.

- It's very weird to sort of tentatively prepare?

- Yeah.

- Not really knowing where things are gonna be in the next week, tomorrow?

- Cause it's weird, like the butterflies are just kind of, like like usually they are let's fly in formation, come on, let's go. But it's just kind of, they're just there. It's kind of, it's nice I guess. Yeah, cause you know, you've got time. - And it's hopeful.

- Yeah.

- Cool, anyone else?

- [Gill] Yeah, Neil, who's been one of our regulars on our virtual tours and virtual programs, hello Neil.

- Hi Neil. He said that, "With painting, what artists have inspired you in your painting?"

- I mean, I think the kind of pinnacle for me is Lucian Freud. I don't know how much he sort of comes across in my work, but I just never get sick of look... I could look at one of his paintings for days and just like never get tired of it. I'm, oh no, I'm going to say her name wrong. There's an artist, Loribelle Spirovski... I'm going to get trouble. Laura Bell, I'm going to say it wrong. Loribelle Spirovski I think, I think I'm probably saying it wrong, but I just, I absolutely adore her work. She sort of does sort of abstract portraiture and figurative kind of stuff, I think she's really, really fascinating.

- [Gill] Neil loves Lucien Freud too and he thinks he comes across in your work.

- Thank you, Neil.

- [Gill] Any more questions from the audience before we wrap up? We probably have one time for one more.

- [Gill] No, no questions? - Anyone?

- [Gill] No worries, over to Karen.

- Karen, I'll give you the microphone darl.

- [Karen] Thank you so much for, oh, sorry. I've got a big voice, it'll be okay. Thank you both so much for coming out, traveling and being with us today and sharing those really intimate insights actually into art and life and both your practices and your relationship to one another. I think it was a fantastic conversation.

- Thank you. - Yeah, thanks for having us.

- Yeah look, we wish you all the best with your projects, your theatrical projects and your film projects, both of you

- Thank you.

- But you too with your practice as an artist, because it's so exciting to see your success and your growth and your passion and the beautiful work that you're producing. And it's just great to hear more about it from both of you. Thank you so much.

- Thank you, Karen.

- And thank you all for joining us today in real form. And in virtual form. We'll see you again soon. Thanks for coming to the National Portrait Gallery.

- Thank you.